A tallit-and-tefillin-wearing woman in a traditional Conservative synagogue?! An unorthodox—and non-orthodox—perspective on Jews and Judaism from a perpetual misfit. This blog, welcoming the entire Jewish community, is dedicated to those who take Judaism seriously, but not necessarily literally.
[ ¶ ]
Why did they dismiss neurosurgeon Noam Stadlan's study on that subject, which anyone can read in the September 2010 issue of Meorot?
[ ¶ ]
See also the comments on the same subject here.
posted by Shira Salamone at 5:40 PM
Once upon a time, I belonged to a left-wing egalitarian Conservative synagogue, where I was one of a number of women who wore a tallit—and one of the few members who used an Orthodox prayer book (adding the Mothers, of course). Having moved since then, I now belong to a right-wing traditional Conservative synagogue, where I’m almost always the only woman wearing a tallit—and one of the few members who adds the Mothers. I seem destined to be forever . . . on the fringe.
15 Comments:
Oddly, one of my thoughts on reading the articles about this was how much the people defending it sounded like the rabbis on the CJLS. They were saying that the RCA doesn't want to declare it legitimate or not, they just want to provide a detailed halachic backgrounds so the member rabbis can make their own halachic decisions. Sound familiar?
Shira, you keep saying the RCA is modern orthodox. To quote the Princess Bride "I do not think that word means what you think it means." I don't for a second believe the RCA represents modern orthodoxy. Call them Centrist ORthodox, or something, but they're not modern.
They're also not wrong. The fact is, that brain death is still a minority halachic position. I don't have a problem accepting brain death, and I am an organ donor (although I hope to use mine for many, many years and exhaust them, especially my liver!)
The RCA is split, as you can tell by the reactions of the community rabbis, between the modern side of the spectrum and the more right wing side. The more right wing side is becoming dominant. However, I would guess this will have no impact on anybody who was already an organ donor, nor on those that already refused.
And to think that the medical community will say "oh, no organs for orthodox jews" is stupid. If my driver's license shows I'm an organ donor, wouldn't that be more influential than some rabbinic group somewhere?
RCA Represents Modern Orthodoxy in that it isn't Hareidi, but they are what is called RWMO, the kind that now dominates YU. Basically, everyone that believes that some degree of participation in America is positive falls under their umbrella.
However, "modern Orthodox" as a progressive effort in Orthodoxy? That's YCT and their umbrella organization.
But the RCA's big tent is definitely following what destroyed the Conservative movement, sociologically, not halachically.
I think that those advancing the "doctors will deny organs to Orthodox Jews" know that it isn't real. They realize (or should realize) that in America, the establishment is ethnic-blind, so even if Orthodox Jews stopped giving organs, they could still get them. However, where judgement calls are made, let's not pretend that individual anti-Orthodox Doctors on committees (probably mostly Jewish doctors), might be biased because they think Orthodox Jews don't get organs.
However, it IS a Halachic bootstrap.
If you are concerned, it makes sense to be stringent, and not give the organ.
Giving the organ saves lives, but probably gentile lives, so you are doing so with a leniency to prevent anti-semetism.
HOWEVER, if giving organs means that people will give organs to Jews, and not giving organs means that people will not give organs to Jews, then giving organs saves Jewish lives.
It's a Halachic bootstrap to move the discussion to an area where we now have a reason to be lenient, not stringent.
Al,
I don't consider the RCA to be Mod Orth, even as you define it, unless you mean Mod Orth simply to mean that people work instead of sitting and learning all day. The RCA used to be what you discussed, but isn't any longer. It is, at best, Centrist, but I think it's even further to the right than that.
Let's put it this way, if the head of Lander College for Men is a leader of the RCA, it's not modern orthodox. That's the epitome of "Torah u'parnassah" rather than "Torah u'mada". YU shouldn't be considered a b'dieved situation, it should be a proud choice (or a secular college, for that matter!)
Jdub,
Sorry, Modern Orthodoxy as in proud of secular knowledge and pursuits has lost the heart and soul of the Modern Orthodox people. Those that aren't Yeshivish all think that they aren't very religious.
The proud YU/secular college days are now seen as "not very religious."
I agree with you, I just think we are the losing majority.
"Oddly, one of my thoughts on reading the articles about this was how much the people defending it sounded like the rabbis on the CJLS."
Larry, it does, indeed, sound like the (Conservative) Rabbinical Assembly's Committee on Jewish Law and Standard, which is famous for endorsing both majority and minority opinions.
"I don't for a second believe the RCA represents modern orthodoxy. Call them Centrist ORthodox, or something, but they're not modern."
JDub, who's left, both in the usual and haskafic/religious perspective senses of that term? Are all the "real" Modern Orthodox Jews going to end up in another not-yet-created group affiliated with Rabbi Avi Weiss and Rabbi Marc Angel's International Rabbinic Fellowship?
"The fact is, that brain death is still a minority halachic position."
I honestly don't understand why. Without a functioning brain, a person would die the minute that life support machinery was removed.
"The RCA is split, as you can tell by the reactions of the community rabbis, between the modern side of the spectrum and the more right wing side. The more right wing side is becoming dominant."
Not exactly news, unfortunately.
"If my driver's license shows I'm an organ donor, wouldn't that be more influential than some rabbinic group somewhere?"
Good point.
"RCA Represents Modern Orthodoxy in that it isn't Hareidi, but they are what is called RWMO, the kind that now dominates YU. Basically, everyone that believes that some degree of participation in America is positive falls under their umbrella."
Ah, so *that's* the story. But that's a pretty big umbrella, Miami Al.
"However, "modern Orthodox" as a progressive effort in Orthodoxy? That's YCT and their umbrella organization."
Aside from the IRF (see above), they don't have one--yet.
"But the RCA's big tent is definitely following what destroyed the Conservative movement, sociologically, not halachically."
Do big tents always collapse?
"Giving the organ saves lives, but probably gentile lives, so you are doing so with a leniency to prevent anti-semetism.
HOWEVER, if giving organs means that people will give organs to Jews, and not giving organs means that people will not give organs to Jews, then giving organs saves Jewish lives.
It's a Halachic bootstrap to move the discussion to an area where we now have a reason to be lenient, not stringent."
Any bootstrap will do, when it comes to pikach nefesh/saving lives, in my opinion.
Al,
I would agree with you that we are losing the majority. I would simply note that I reject the concept of anyone who views college as b'dieved since we need a parnassah as Modern Orthodox. There's no modernity there.
If you (not you, the rhetorical you!) can't see the inherent value in secular education, you're not modern orthodox. Full stop. My rabbi quotes Milton. When I quoted Bob Dylan in a d'var torah at my daughter's bat mitzvah, both he and his wife appreciated the way I intertwined the lyrics into my interpretation of akedat yitzhak.
My problem is I don't like the YCT/Avi Weiss version of pushing boundaries even further. As Yeats put it, things fall apart, the center cannot hold.
"Let's put it this way, if the head of Lander College for Men is a leader of the RCA, it's not modern orthodox. That's the epitome of "Torah u'parnassah" rather than "Torah u'mada". YU shouldn't be considered a b'dieved situation, it should be a proud choice (or a secular college, for that matter!)"
JDub, my understanding of the history of Touro College, of which the Lander College for Men is a division, is that it was founded as the right-wing Orthodox version of Yeshiva University, which was, at the time of Touro's founding, considering way too left-wing for the more right-wing Orthodox. So I think you're right about Lander College for Men being "the epitome of "Torah u'parnassah" [Torah study/lifestyle and a livelihood (e.i., working for a living)] rather than "Torah u'mada" [Torah study/lifestyle and (secular) knowledge]. Touro seems to be a right-wing institution that, nevertheless, educates Orthodox Jews for the workplace. It beats a lifetime of kollel, but it certainly isn't "Modern."
"YU shouldn't be considered a b'dieved [per Pidyon.org’s kashrus glossary , "B'dieved — a posteriori. Refers to an acceptable halachic position but one that is short of ideal.] situation, it should be a proud choice . . ."
When and why YU became treifer than chazir (less kosher than pork) in the eyes of the right-wing Orthodox community, I don't know. :(
Sorry, Modern Orthodoxy as in proud of secular knowledge and pursuits has lost the heart and soul of the Modern Orthodox people. Those that aren't Yeshivish all think that they aren't very religious.
The proud YU/secular college days are now seen as "not very religious."
Sad but true, Miami Al, at least in large swaths of the New York City metropolitan area. How you can be in the majority and still be on the losing side is beyond me. The minority can be a pretty good tyrant.
shira,
You ask, based on my statement: "The fact is, that brain death is still a minority halachic position."
I honestly don't understand why. Without a functioning brain, a person would die the minute that life support machinery was removed."
It doesn't matter. Death was always defined, until relatively late in the 20th Century as cessation of cardio/pulmonary function. Thus, millenia of halachic literature support heart/lung cessation as death. Thus, Rav Moshe/Rav Moshe Tendler are innovators in this.
You also ask: "JDub, who's left, both in the usual and haskafic/religious perspective senses of that term? Are all the "real" Modern Orthodox Jews going to end up in another not-yet-created group affiliated with Rabbi Avi Weiss and Rabbi Marc Angel's International Rabbinic Fellowship?"
Who's left? Me, dammit,and I'm not going any where! In all seriousness, we're dwindling. It's a couple dozen shuls, at most, at this point. And my shul will never affiliate with something like Avi Weiss's group. That pretty much reads you out of orthodoxy, for better or worse. We'll remain with the OU, and hire an RCA rabbi, of the minority of qualified, truly Mod Orth rabbis. Fortunately, we are one of the prize congregations outside of NY, so once our rabbi retires, we'll have no trouble attracting a good, qualified Mod Orth rabbi.
"If you (not you, the rhetorical you!) can't see the inherent value in secular education, you're not modern orthodox. Full stop."
. . .
"My problem is I don't like the YCT/Avi Weiss version of pushing boundaries even further. As Yeats put it, things fall apart, the center cannot hold."
Oy. It would appear that you may be running out of options, JDub.
"Death was always defined, until relatively late in the 20th Century as cessation of cardio/pulmonary function. Thus, millenia of halachic literature support heart/lung cessation as death. Thus, Rav Moshe/Rav Moshe Tendler are innovators in this."
Good for them--and not so good for those who think that we can ignore medical progress at the expense of people's lives.
"Who's left? Me, dammit,and I'm not going any where! In all seriousness, we're dwindling. It's a couple dozen shuls, at most, at this point. And my shul will never affiliate with something like Avi Weiss's group."
It's really sad that the swing to the right in the (formerly?) Modern Orthodox world has put "traditional" Modern Orthodox Jews in this position.
Truth be told, I don't usually feel like I'm in "a position." If I stayed off the blogs, I wouldn't really care. My shul is fine, exactly where I need it. My friends are similarly situated. My kids' school is perfectly mod orth, with strong leadership committed to remaining so. that's all I need. I don't really give a fig what the RCA does.
Jdub,
Agreed, if I stayed off the blogs, I would be much happier in all of this. Just came from a wonderful family and friend filled Shabbat... the RCA's actions have no actual impact on my life.
If you don't value secular knowledge/participation as inherently valuable, you aren't Modern Orthodox. If you are seeing college as a methodology to an income, but the education as worthless, you are NOT Modern Orthodox.
The problem is that Modern Orthodoxy is inherently intellectual (this was the Reform movement's problem vs. Conservative on the heterodox side), and most people aren't intellectual. The hareidi world has an easy draw to "how to be more frum," you learn more (time, not content), your wife covers up more, and you refuse to eat certain foods, wallah, Chumrah = frumkeit. Modern Orthodoxy requires more "intellectual" grappling with tradition and modernity...
The Reform "trap" of this is that you simply picked up uninterested people because of the least traditional appearance. Modern Orthodoxy has a similar sociological phenomenon, in that it is filled with people that are sociologically Orthodoxy, but with nearly no theology whatsoever.
Net-Net, they don't care when the schools hire RW Rabbis, they don't care that their kids learn RW Judaism as "true" Judaism... they might believe it anyway... same way secular Israelis have no problem with Chabad being their Judaism for their kids, they don't have a theological dog in the fight, same problem modern Orthodoxy has, too many people without a dog in the fight.
So a laissez-faire attitude toward theology and toward the type of teachers in Jewish day schools can have a long-term negative impact on Modern Orthodoxy by making it less modern. That's an interesting perspective.
Post a Comment
<< Home